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Seeking Serenity
I'm so confused and emotionally drained that I don't know what to do.
When is the appropriate time to say enough is enough? My mother in law is an alcholic. In an attempt to have our children feel the security that I did as a child we had set boundaries with her. Do not show up intoxicated. Do not lie to us. Perhaps we should made more boundaries because let me tell you, the lie thing can hit a lot of grey areas.
You see, my mother in law is insidious in the sense that she plays the victim incredibly well. So well that even I, who is usually cynical when it comes to her, will fall for her self imposed drama. Her siblings and mother believe that my husband's childhood was ideallic because this is what she presented to them, very convincingly. The physical and phsycological torture was hidden and if an incident became known, well, it wasn't her fault, noooo, it was the set of horrible circumstances that she was put in that brought it on and all was forgiven. She looks sweet and gentle and all feminine wiles and she makes we want to throw up for what she has done to my husband and at times me, over the years.
So, my question stems from her latest fiassco. She supposedly fell down a flight of stairs last month. She has no insurance. no money, no disability, a ton of debt, lost job,etc... She asked for our help. Since my husband and I are in no financial position to help we insisted that she go to the hospital,and apply for medicaide and social services. She had FX her pelvis. She stayed there for 3 weeks and a social worker was sent to arrange for everything to be paid. I just found out she refused to meet the social worker and checked herself out before she had everything in place for payment and now expects us to help her.
I want to wash my hands of her. ENOUGH! But my husband asked me if it was my mother would I have felt the same way. Honestly, if my mom behaved that way I would have had her committed!! Am I wrong?
irish
QUOTE(Seeking Serenity @ Apr 1 2005, 08:31 AM)
I'm so confused and emotionally drained that I don't know what to do.
When is the appropriate time to say enough is enough? My mother in law is an alcholic. In an attempt to have our children feel the security that I did as a child we had set boundaries with her. Do not show up intoxicated. Do not lie to us. Perhaps we should made more boundaries because let me tell you, the lie thing can hit a lot of grey areas.
  You see, my mother in law is insidious in the sense that she plays the victim incredibly well. So well that even I, who is usually cynical when it comes to her, will fall for her self imposed drama. Her siblings and mother believe that my husband's childhood was ideallic because this is what she presented to them, very convincingly. The physical and phsycological torture was hidden and if an incident became known, well, it wasn't her fault, noooo, it was the set of horrible circumstances that she was put in that brought it on and all was forgiven. She looks sweet and gentle and all feminine wiles and she makes we want to throw up for what she has done to my husband and at times me, over the years.
    So, my question stems from her latest fiassco. She supposedly fell down a flight of stairs last month. She has no insurance. no money, no disability, a ton of debt, lost job,etc... She asked for our help. Since my husband and I are in no financial position to help we insisted that she go to the hospital,and apply for medicaide and social services. She had FX her pelvis. She stayed there for 3 weeks and a social worker was sent to arrange for everything to be paid. I just found out she refused to meet the social worker and checked herself out before she had everything in place for payment and now expects us to help her.
  I want to wash my hands of her. ENOUGH! But my husband asked me if it was my mother would I have felt the same way. Honestly, if my mom behaved that way I would have had her committed!! Am I wrong?
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hi serenity.
welcome to the board.

gosh my heart goes out to you.

all active A's will pull the emotional blackmail stuff.
my bro/dad did it with me, in fact all my dysfunctional family did.

you asked when is it enough?
well for me that came when i found myself running around after my dysfuntional family at a cost to myself (financial/physical/emotional cost)

the more i gave the more they expected.

and like you my hubby would say" why dont you stop helping them....and like your hubby i would ask" would you feel the same way if it were your family.

but thankfully i found acoa.....and detached from the lot of them.
my motto now is never do something for someone that they could and should do for themselves.

your mother-in-law got the chance to get the hospital/med bills paid for her and shes the one who walked out without getting it settled....so she should be the one to take the consqunces for that!

how is she going to learn to take responsiblity for herself...if you and ur hubby take on the responsiblity for her?

does your hubby know anything about acoa?
if not, leave some acoa booklets around for him to have a look at.....thats what my hubby did.

before acoa my life was a rollercoster of crisis after crisis.

now i have more time for myself and my own family.

and my relationship with my hubby has improved....and my son is a changed child.....cause none of us are involved in the maddness any more....thats one rollercoster i am so glad i got off of.

praying for your peace and strength.
love in recovery.
irish
looking for
Hi Serenity,

I felt like your husband and did like Irish described... and unfortunatelly I did not stop before spend it all, when I had no more, when I found myself near broke and losing my credit... they still were blaming on me and expecting me to solve their problems and disregarding any of my needs!

We are not responsible to fix what someone else broke. Took me such a long time to understand it!

Do your husband know of ACoA? It is very difficult for us to change, we need help. I would always feel I had to go to any lenght to help my mother and relatives, my husband would tell me like you and I would reply the same old ACoA frase, because we think thats how everybody does. We feel guilt and nor even know why and we are always trying to fix the mess others create... the result is to get ourselves in an ongoing mess.

I had to dettach and let go to focus on myself and in my sobriety. It is a everyday work. People still try to get me on old behavior, and to say no bring back old fears and guilts.

Nice to meet you smile.gif

Lucia
Guest
smile.gif Thank you both for your input! My husband and I have been at a standoff all weekend and it's nice to know I'm not completely off on my thinking. We actually talked (or discussed vigorously wink.gif ) last night and I came to realize that in many ways he has somehow transfixed negative notions about how I feel about him and interact with him that, to me, is completely out in left field. That I do not feel true love for him, that I am jealous of him having a relationship out of our immediate family, that I don't listen, don't want to participate in anything etc....
Ironically, with the exception of the love part(cause I know he deeply loves me) these are all issues that I have had with him over the years. Not that he would ever say anything that would imply it, he simply would inadvertantly sabotage anything that I would want to do outside of what he could give me. I don't think he even realizes it. After ten years of marriage and a lot of growing up, I 've become very independent and I'm not going to cease growing because of him. I just hope my expanding of horizons doesn't freak him out too bad.
As for mom in law, well, hubby needs to help her a little longer. His 84 year old granny who raised him the first few years of his life begged him. And he believes that his mom may be mentally disabled. Since I have a brother who is schizophrenic and I have participated in his care with case workers and housing, medication, etc. it's hard for me to not be supportive of his efforts. He claims he wants to get her physically healed before persueing the other but is looking into the possibility of institutionalizing her. I guess the only thing I can do is support him.
As for joining ACOA- I tried it with him before we were married. We went for 6 months. My guess is that it was the wrong group for him, it felt more like an AA meeting- people dicussing their sobriety, all the time. He's a tee-totaller. Never a sip of a drink cause he believes it's hereditary. My mom was a program coordinator for drug and alcohol rehab. She suggested trying other meetings. Right now, I don't think his brain can wrap around the idea of it.
Just say a prayer for us and I'll remember to light a candle in my kitchen for both of you and your families. With gratitude,
Seeking serenity
irish
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 4 2005, 06:59 AM)
smile.gif Thank you both for your input! My husband and I have been at a standoff all weekend and it's nice to know I'm not completely off on my thinking. We actually talked (or discussed vigorously wink.gif ) last night and I came to realize that in many ways he has somehow transfixed negative notions about how I feel about him and interact with him that, to me, is completely out in left field. That I do not feel true love for him, that I am jealous of him having a relationship out of our immediate family, that I don't listen, don't want to participate in anything etc....
  Ironically, with the exception of the love part(cause I know he deeply loves me) these are all issues that I have had with him over the years. Not that he would ever say anything that would imply it, he simply would inadvertantly sabotage anything that I would want to do outside of what he could give me. I don't think he even realizes it. After ten years of marriage and a lot of growing up, I 've become very independent and I'm not going to cease growing because of him. I just hope my expanding of horizons doesn't freak him out too bad.
    As for mom in law, well, hubby needs to help her a little longer. His 84 year old granny who raised him the first few years of his life begged him. And he believes that his mom may be mentally disabled. Since I have a brother who is schizophrenic and I have participated in his care with case workers and housing, medication, etc. it's hard for me to not be supportive of his efforts. He claims he wants to get her physically healed before persueing the other but is looking into the possibility of institutionalizing her. I guess the only thing I can do is support him.
    As for joining ACOA- I tried it with him before we were married. We went for 6 months. My guess is that it was the wrong group for him, it felt more like an AA meeting- people dicussing their sobriety, all the time. He's a tee-totaller. Never a sip of a drink cause he believes it's hereditary. My mom was a program coordinator for drug and alcohol rehab. She suggested trying other meetings. Right now, I don't think his brain can wrap around the idea of it.
    Just say a prayer for us and I'll remember to light a candle in my kitchen for both of you and your families.                  With gratitude,
                                                                Seeking serenity
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hi sereinty.

being an adult child of an alcoholic myself and having to look after my mum who has alzhiemers disease, i totally understand where he is coming from, in regards to his mom.

like ur hubby i didnt see that i too sabotaged things my hubby wanted to do....but getting me to admit that was like pulling teeth.

your right to keep your focus on yourself and grow further....thats is whats normal.

but we acoas have a need to control our world and the ppl in it in order to feel safe.

i didnt see this until i came into recovery....i thought i was doing all i could to keep the ppl in my life happy.
but what i was really doing was trying to keep the ppl i loved in my little world so they wouldnt leave me.

i had such huge abandonment issues!
thankfully i am dealing with that now.
i'm in councling and that has been such an eyeopener!

praying for you and your family.

love in recovery,
irish
Seeking Serenity
Dear Irish,
Boy oh boy, I guess it's true that there are patterns in ACOA.

I don't want to sound as though my husband is complete control freak or or anything with a negative connotation to it but truth be known I'm afraid to allow this pattern to continue yet unsure or perhaps too afraid to stop it.

He's wonderful....and I wanna wring his neck sometimes wink.gif

But I chose him didn't I? So I'll gladly figure something out.

Hey, are there any particular kinds of therapy one on one that is appropriate for ACOA. I think getting him in a group setting is my biggest problem.

Seeking Serenity
irish
QUOTE(Seeking Serenity @ Apr 4 2005, 01:03 PM)
Dear Irish,
Boy oh boy, I guess it's true that there are patterns in ACOA.

I don't want to sound as though my husband is complete control freak or or anything with a negative connotation to it but truth be known I'm afraid to allow this pattern to continue yet unsure or perhaps too afraid to stop it.

He's wonderful....and I wanna wring his neck sometimes wink.gif

But I chose him didn't I? So I'll gladly figure something out.

Hey, are there any particular kinds of therapy one on one that is appropriate for ACOA. I think getting him in a group setting is my biggest problem.

Seeking Serenity
[snapback]409[/snapback]


morning serenity,

i read everything i could about acoa and couldnt get the grip of it for the life of me.

then last year i was in a crash and needed to go to councling because i was having terrible nightmares and panic attacks.

and through the councling there was a lot of acoa issues explaind to me and worked on one by one.

this has helped me big time!
maybe this might be the way forward for you and your hubby.
its worth a try anyway.

if both of u need councling, i suggest u dont do it together.

my hubby also comes from a dysfuntional home and a few years back i decided to go for councling, and of course he followed my lead and decided to go to councling too.
jeez i will never forget that time in my life.... both of us were like mad ppl bouncing off each other.

councling for couples is great for marriage/relationships problems.
but not when 2 ppl are dealing with their own stuff....at the same time.

i found we looked to each other for support and we couldnt support each other because we were each dealing with our own stuff.
jeezzzzz what a memory lol.

praying for you and yours

love in recovery.
irish
Guest
Thanks for the advise!
Hubby hasn't slept thru the nite in several months. Aw, hell probably years. His newest thing as of a few days ago is to claim that he does everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, for our little family and I do nothing but ...well he didn't actually say what I was doing but it was apparantly not good because I was able to sit at the TV at 10pm and watch the news. Very selfish of me wink.gif I smiled. Said I luv U. But I would rather roast alive than figure out his mom's unpaid bills with him.
irish
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 5 2005, 04:41 AM)
Thanks for the advise!
Hubby hasn't slept thru the nite in several months. Aw, hell probably years. His newest thing as of a few days ago is to claim that he does everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, for our little family and I do nothing but ...well he didn't actually say what I was doing but it was apparantly not good because I was able to sit at the TV at 10pm and watch the news. Very selfish of me wink.gif I smiled. Said I luv U. But I would rather roast alive than figure out his mom's unpaid bills with him.
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lol serenity,
i dont blame you, why take on whats not your to fix.

have you ever read the acoa laundry list posted here?

when i first read it i thought it must have been wrote about me lol.....i fitted mostly everything on the list.


is him telling you that he does everything and you do nothing not a guy thing???????
cause my hubby says that too blink.gif .....
like i sit on my behind all day and the house cleans itself and the dinner pops into the oven and cooks its self.
or maybe i have an unpaid cleaner, cook and bottle washer tucked away under the stairs laugh.gif

all the best,
irish

p.s just so u know, we dont give advice in acoa.....just share our experiance.....then its up to you to decide.
Seeking Serenity
tongue.gif Definitely more a hubby thing...not that I don't have my lil quirks.

I read the laundry list...some of it seems very much on target. On one hand it's helps me to have a little more patience with some of his stranger ideas and obsession with "taking care of things" til it's watching the road runner...on speed. But in the same breathe, it makes me wonder where this journey that at least i decided to take, will lead us.

I want my two boys to be free of all the insecurities that hubby has and perhaps I have developed. Imean, as a dad, my hubby is everything that his parents were not. Caring, patient, encouraging...he'd give his left arm. But the boys are smart as a whip and have even approached my husband in his darker moods with concern. They know somethin isn't right. Luckily, again, hubby works hard to be honest in all things with them (since he never had that himself) in a loving way

Dang, I'm a lucky woman!
Seeking Serenity
Polly
QUOTE(irish @ Apr 2 2005, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE(Seeking Serenity @ Apr 1 2005, 08:31 AM)
I'm so confused and emotionally drained that I don't know what to do.
When is the appropriate time to say enough is enough? My mother in law is an alcholic. In an attempt to have our children feel the security that I did as a child we had set boundaries with her. Do not show up intoxicated. Do not lie to us. Perhaps we should made more boundaries because let me tell you, the lie thing can hit a lot of grey areas.
   You see, my mother in law is insidious in the sense that she plays the victim incredibly well. So well that even I, who is usually cynical when it comes to her, will fall for her self imposed drama. Her siblings and mother believe that my husband's childhood was ideallic because this is what she presented to them, very convincingly. The physical and phsycological torture was hidden and if an incident became known, well, it wasn't her fault, noooo, it was the set of horrible circumstances that she was put in that brought it on and all was forgiven. She looks sweet and gentle and all feminine wiles and she makes we want to throw up for what she has done to my husband and at times me, over the years.
    So, my question stems from her latest fiassco. She supposedly fell down a flight of stairs last month. She has no insurance. no money, no disability, a ton of debt, lost job,etc... She asked for our help. Since my husband and I are in no financial position to help we insisted that she go to the hospital,and apply for medicaide and social services. She had FX her pelvis. She stayed there for 3 weeks and a social worker was sent to arrange for everything to be paid. I just found out she refused to meet the social worker and checked herself out before she had everything in place for payment and now expects us to help her.
  I want to wash my hands of her. ENOUGH! But my husband asked me if it was my mother would I have felt the same way. Honestly, if my mom behaved that way I would have had her committed!! Am I wrong?
[snapback]396[/snapback]


hi serenity.
welcome to the board.

gosh my heart goes out to you.

all active A's will pull the emotional blackmail stuff.
my bro/dad did it with me, in fact all my dysfunctional family did.

you asked when is it enough?
well for me that came when i found myself running around after my dysfuntional family at a cost to myself (financial/physical/emotional cost)

the more i gave the more they expected.

and like you my hubby would say" why dont you stop helping them....and like your hubby i would ask" would you feel the same way if it were your family.

but thankfully i found acoa.....and detached from the lot of them.
my motto now is never do something for someone that they could and should do for themselves.

your mother-in-law got the chance to get the hospital/med bills paid for her and shes the one who walked out without getting it settled....so she should be the one to take the consqunces for that!

how is she going to learn to take responsiblity for herself...if you and ur hubby take on the responsiblity for her?

does your hubby know anything about acoa?
if not, leave some acoa booklets around for him to have a look at.....thats what my hubby did.

before acoa my life was a rollercoster of crisis after crisis.

now i have more time for myself and my own family.

and my relationship with my hubby has improved....and my son is a changed child.....cause none of us are involved in the maddness any more....thats one rollercoster i am so glad i got off of.

praying for your peace and strength.
love in recovery.
irish
[snapback]399[/snapback]



(never do something for someone that they could and should do for themselves) Amen to that Irish, well said, I couldn't agree more. God, they'll just take and take until there is nothing left. I don't do anything for them that will affect my family in a negative way. They still try to make me feel like I'm selfish...... if I say no. It's so hard to let go.
Polly
irish
QUOTE(Polly @ Apr 6 2005, 07:06 PM)
QUOTE(irish @ Apr 2 2005, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE(Seeking Serenity @ Apr 1 2005, 08:31 AM)
I'm so confused and emotionally drained that I don't know what to do.
When is the appropriate time to say enough is enough? My mother in law is an alcholic. In an attempt to have our children feel the security that I did as a child we had set boundaries with her. Do not show up intoxicated. Do not lie to us. Perhaps we should made more boundaries because let me tell you, the lie thing can hit a lot of grey areas.
   You see, my mother in law is insidious in the sense that she plays the victim incredibly well. So well that even I, who is usually cynical when it comes to her, will fall for her self imposed drama. Her siblings and mother believe that my husband's childhood was ideallic because this is what she presented to them, very convincingly. The physical and phsycological torture was hidden and if an incident became known, well, it wasn't her fault, noooo, it was the set of horrible circumstances that she was put in that brought it on and all was forgiven. She looks sweet and gentle and all feminine wiles and she makes we want to throw up for what she has done to my husband and at times me, over the years.
    So, my question stems from her latest fiassco. She supposedly fell down a flight of stairs last month. She has no insurance. no money, no disability, a ton of debt, lost job,etc... She asked for our help. Since my husband and I are in no financial position to help we insisted that she go to the hospital,and apply for medicaide and social services. She had FX her pelvis. She stayed there for 3 weeks and a social worker was sent to arrange for everything to be paid. I just found out she refused to meet the social worker and checked herself out before she had everything in place for payment and now expects us to help her.
  I want to wash my hands of her. ENOUGH! But my husband asked me if it was my mother would I have felt the same way. Honestly, if my mom behaved that way I would have had her committed!! Am I wrong?
[snapback]396[/snapback]


hi serenity.
welcome to the board.

gosh my heart goes out to you.

all active A's will pull the emotional blackmail stuff.
my bro/dad did it with me, in fact all my dysfunctional family did.

you asked when is it enough?
well for me that came when i found myself running around after my dysfuntional family at a cost to myself (financial/physical/emotional cost)

the more i gave the more they expected.

and like you my hubby would say" why dont you stop helping them....and like your hubby i would ask" would you feel the same way if it were your family.

but thankfully i found acoa.....and detached from the lot of them.
my motto now is never do something for someone that they could and should do for themselves.

your mother-in-law got the chance to get the hospital/med bills paid for her and shes the one who walked out without getting it settled....so she should be the one to take the consqunces for that!

how is she going to learn to take responsiblity for herself...if you and ur hubby take on the responsiblity for her?

does your hubby know anything about acoa?
if not, leave some acoa booklets around for him to have a look at.....thats what my hubby did.

before acoa my life was a rollercoster of crisis after crisis.

now i have more time for myself and my own family.

and my relationship with my hubby has improved....and my son is a changed child.....cause none of us are involved in the maddness any more....thats one rollercoster i am so glad i got off of.

praying for your peace and strength.
love in recovery.
irish
[snapback]399[/snapback]



(never do something for someone that they could and should do for themselves) Amen to that Irish, well said, I couldn't agree more. God, they'll just take and take until there is nothing left. I don't do anything for them that will affect my family in a negative way. They still try to make me feel like I'm selfish...... if I say no. It's so hard to let go.
Polly
[snapback]427[/snapback]




hi polly,
welcome to the board.

i'm in total agreement with what you said.....yesterday i decided to test the waters in regard my family not braking my boundries.

even after giving them instructions about what they need to do for mum while looking after her( mum has alzheimers) they went and totally ignored the list i gave them about her care....they let her smoke.....which is dangerouse for her....cause she has fluid backing up into her lungs.
they were drinking while looking after her.
and to top that off when i went to pick mum up, my brother had left mum with to guys who were drinking in my bros flat!

but i didnt get angry, i just took mum and left.

the hardest thing i found was detacing from my family or origin.....
but when the last straw came and i had no choice but to detach for my own sanity...it turned out to be the best thing i ever did.

like you i refuse to do anything that will have a negitive inpact on my own family....
at the end of the day my own family deserve more than they have been getting from me in the last 15 years....

looking back i dont know how my hubby put up wit me running around after my family of origin and fixing everything for them, and neglecting my own family.

but hes a good guy and understand me, thank god lol

love in recovery
irish
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