Hi,
How are you all doing?
So, I ran across a very interesting discussion about honesty the other day.
Seems I told my friend (we'll say) Jane something about another person I was a little disturbed with. This other person (we'll say) Dick is a long time and very dear friend of mine. Long time and very dear does not preclude one from getting disturbed with even their best friend at times. Well, it seems what I said to Jane got back (via two other people) to Dick. Are you following this? Oh dear. (Does this sound like a women's problem? Not always guys)
So when Dick called and asked what was going on, I took responsibility for my words (after all, they came out of my mouth) and we talked a bit about why he was bothering me. (Would have helped if I'd gone straight to him.) Actually he even guessed a bit about what was going on.
The point is honesty. Self honesty. I took responsibility for my words

Tables turned. Jane told me something, something that did not seem to be a big secret. I repeated it to someone else and it got back to the person she had said it about. That person also got upset and asked her about it, in fact got angry at her about it. Guess who got blamed. Me, yes, Jane yelled at me.

"STOP"

I said. "wait a minute. I don't keep silly little secrets for people and I don't try to second guess them or anyone else."

And besides, what ever happened to "Taking responsibility for our own actions."
I didn't say that to her. I didn't say it because we alcoholics never take instructions, criticism or correction very well.

I learned this lesson a long time ago. I knew how to react to Jane.
I knew who's problem this was.
I learned that "we are only as sick as our secrets and if I am going to gossip, I must always remember that I may have to take responsibility for my words.
I don't like to get them back at me but if I said them, well----------.

I have a right to my opinion, if I am going to state it I have to be responsible for
it. I "do not" have the right to pass judgement on anyone. I will say "Lest it someday be me." But I think I should also say that its just common Karma sense. "What goes around comes around."

It sounds like a complicated situation folks but it has a "Keep It Simple" solution.
It would be nice if I could keep my mouth shut but I doubt that, that will ever happen. (Only striving for perfection) Barring that, I must always be self honest and take responsiblity for my actions, (and words).

Ok, how about you?
How do you handle gossip? I am bringing this up because I have seen people go out and get drunk over gossip. It's sad to watch and just another excuse to drink but it might help someone if it is discussed.
Have a Great Day!!!!
PamW

That's so funny, Pam. I mean it's not, gossip is a very serious problem, but you make it funny in the telling.

My sponsor says, "If you don't have something nice to say...sit next to me!" Personally, I hate gossip and I try to never pass things along. People will share things with me and say, remember, this is between you and me. Maybe it's because I have been on the other end of it that I listen and then erase my mental tape recorder. I have learned from experience the value of keeping my mouth shut.

I was also taught that what anyone else thinks of me is none of my business, it's just their opinion and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink. (Now on the other hand, if you hear the same thing from a number of people...you might want to take a closer look at it.)

Anyway, love to you Pam.

Hey Cathy,
Hi, how are you?
I use to agree with you.
Only I had trouble remembering everybody's little secrets. I mean they were
all saying to me (like a bunch of high school girls) this is between you and me.
Pretty soon I found that they were all confiding in me about each other and not telling the other one the truth. And I figured out that what they really wanted was for me to second guess just exactly what it was they DID want me to say. So I figured out the best policy was to say, "If you don't want me to repeat it don't tell me, that way your guaranteed that it won't get repeated.
Ya know I said to my friend, I am not talking about the big things, I am talking about little petty "dish" things that cause gossip and get us all into trouble. BUT I say the same thing even with the big things. I tell my sponsees, I will not tell anyone your secret EXCEPT if I think it will help another suffering alcoholic. One of the joys "I" had when I took the 4th step was in realizing that nothing I did, caused or went through while drinking could ever blind side me in life. I admitted it, faced up to it and became not afraid of it. That doesn't mean I won't ever have to explain or be accountable for my actions but I was not longer afraid of them.
I worry about little white lies, they are always ground work for bigger lies.
So I made the chioce a long time ago to not buy into peoples dirty little secrets or into their gossip.
One way to do that is to "Keep It Simple"
It's the safest way to go.
Hugs,
Pam

Good Evening,
I'll chime in on this topic. First, I've been the topic of gossip especially if you go to an Alano Club, the club setting without the bar. At first I got angry then I learned at the tables were only as sick as our secrets. So I try not to let that stuff bother me. Guilty as charged for gossiping, but I try not to do it as often because it comes back to haunt you. Learning daily to do the next right thing is a difficult task for me, but I am trying.

I was reading the other topic about relationships. Right now I feel very alone. I went to a meeting tonight, but coming home is difficult. Yesterday, I broke off my relationship with my boyfriend. He's in the program, 2 years clean, but no program even if he goes to meetings. Everything is everyone elses fault. I am quite sure as I type he is thinking this about me. He's a wonderful man in his own way, yet too much negativity for this woman of 7 months sobriety. Sadness, guilt, and failure is what I am feeling right now.

I've listened hard at the tables. Did what I thought was best for me. Did the most loving thing by letting him go. Sure I care deeply for him, but I can't change him or his angry disposition. It's not about him, it's about me. Acceptance, serenity, 3rd step prayer, all in one. I am feeling again because I am sober and feelings hurt. I feel such guilt for letting him go, hurting him.

He's not abusive, just mad all the time. We had nice times, but he was holding me back from living my life on lifes terms. He'd say you go with your bad self if I went to a meeting. Mind you he lost his license because of 2 drunk driving tickets and the ladder he hit someone and fled the scene. The system was at fault, hates sherriffs, courts, you name it. Wouldn't claim his responsibility for his actions. I tried hard to over look the obvious to me. We've never had a conversation that he had a terrific day without someone or thing went wrong. Just calm is what I want and need. I've enough turmoil in my life, but I am not drinking over it. Why do I feel such shame and remorse? I tried talking to him, telling him how I felt. Why I felt it. Am I wrong? I need advice.

Thank you,
VickiLynn

Hey,
Hi Vicki Lynn,
You are doing what is best for you. Don't ever forget that.
One of the first things I was taught was that if I don't watch out for me
I will go back out and drink.
You are right, it sounds like you are working your program.
You will be alright.
I find that during the times when God gives me a boyfriend hiatus
it is time to work on me.
So do some things that make life good and easy for yourself.
Feeling guilt and remorse are not ways to feel good about you, infact it sounds
a bit like his negativety rubbing off on you.
What happens now is his problem not yours.
Even if you left him because he just didn't appeal to you anymore, you were
just being honest and it is still his problem not yours.
Be good to Vicki.
Hugs,
Pam

Thanks Pam,
Tonight I tried to do the right thing and let him know that I'll be his friend. He's very angry. I picked up my house keys. He kept looking out the window and I asked if he was waiting for someone. He said yes, Paul to go to the mens meeting.

I met Paul in the program. He gave me a job this past summer painting residential and commercial until I could find full time employment. That's how I met Dan. Well Paul didn't show. Dan was pissed off calling him every name in the book. I offered "yes offered" to take him to the meeting at the Alano Club, even though I just went there. Again, he was angry because I said I went. Last week he even went so far as to ask me to give him my sign sheets for court. Basically forge them. Hell no. I earned every signature. Being critical he said boy you really must have been a drunk, I simply said yes, but the tables said. "Don't think, don't drink and go to meetings. So I did.

He was quiet, so I said we really need to talk about this. He said he wanted me to shut up. I thought about it, then I spoke again. Simply stating that a relationship cannot flourish unless we spend time together. He said when I work I work, with no time for someone else. He said he was set in his ways, that he felt as if I needed to know what he was doing every 5 minutes. So, I said Dan 1 hour a week doesn't cut it. He blamed me for the ending of us. I got pissed, stopped my car, and told him to walk. If this is the appreciation I get then I don't want it.

He called me psycho. Maybe, I doubt it very much. He was just mad when I said I went to a meeting last night and tonight. Sunday I made it clear if he wanted a ride call. But no the alpha male ego comes into play. Everyone is supposed to come to him. Not sure why Paul didn't show. But Dan called him every name in th book. He is good for that. My feelings are if you push people away, talk un kind, why should they be there at your beckon call.

So in closing. I had to get that last let's drink out of me to see if it is what I wanted. God gave me my answer. Unhealthy, no program, no HP in my life will take me to drink so I can't have someone with me that has none of the above.I can't work his program. I do come first.

Thanks for letting me ramble,
VickiLynn

Looks like you've got them figured out fairly well.

But alcoholics who want to drink are not going to listen to reason. There is no hope of making them understand your side of things.

Their only hope is to get help for their problem. For that to happen, they have to recognize that there is a problem. Until they do, there is nothing you can do.

In the meantime, take care of yourself and your kids.

I am left holding the bag as the bad guy, again I have my husbands support but I see his pain too.....No one has spoken to us in 2 weeks from his family. I can't believe his mom doesn't value her grandchildren more...
Your thoughts?


Hello! Multiple here... .

BAD guy? you? uh. uh. Not this time.

Please accept your own (very reasonable) anger with these folks. They self-centeredly allowed the priority of their own 'snarffing' to rule while leaving their dinner guests (Never keep a meal from a hungry child-mother will indeed, kill you) fending for themselves. Alone. While your are a guest in their home?!! INcredible.

I mention it so you'll not be tempted to question your actions or beliefs. You and your children had the understanding that dinner would happen at a particular time, and it didn't. You got pissed. But that doesn't make you a bad guy in my book.

Sounds to me like these folks are very adept at making others feel guilty rather than fess up to their shortcomings? Hmm?